Marketing Experts Reveal Top Strategies To

Arlen:
Welcome to the e-commerce marketing podcast, everyone. My name is Arlen and I am your host. And today we have a very special guest, Dwayne Brown, who’s been called an international man of mystery and digital, and digital, excuse me, nomad by friends. He’s lived in six cities across three continents and visited 42 countries around the world over the years. You know, Dwayne. has had the opportunity to work with brands including Asus, Birdies, Pella Case, Jack Wills, Rose and Rex, FTD slash Pro Flowers and many others. Him and his team help e-commerce and DTC brands grow through pay-er-click marketing, data and conversion rate optimization. Welcome to the podcast, Dwayne.

Duane:
Thank you for having me. It’s great to be here.

Arlen:
Yes, and thank you for joining me. Yeah, super excited to talk to you. We’re really gonna be kind of diving deep into really what is your bread and butter today, which is paid ads and conversion rate optimization. How do you optimize those things to build a profitable business, specifically an e-commerce business? And I know that’s kind of one of the things that you guys do. So I’m super excited to dig deep into that. But before we do get into that, why don’t you tell us a little bit. more about your background and specifically how you got into what you’re doing today.

Duane:
Yeah, I mean, how it got into it’s probably the same, but maybe different from other people. I went to school for public relations because I could afford college, like college in Canada. It’s very different than maybe college in America. Did that for a couple of years, but realized I didn’t want to spend my life just writing press releases. Someone took a chance on me at an advertising agency. And I was like, So that got me experience with Google, because this was back in 2007, and Google Analytics, Universal Analytics, which was what happened before GA4 just came out. And ever since then. I worked there for a couple years and then I worked abroad a little bit in Australia, worked for some agencies, freelanced here. Eventually went to live in the UK for a couple years in London, which is really cool. And then I kind of like lived in Vancouver, Canada and Montreal, Canada, both working for a tech company, working for myself. And then, yeah, about seven years ago, I started the agency. And it’s been an interesting ride because paid advertising… 17 years ago was a lot easier. It’s like almost shooting fish in a barrel.

Arlen:
Hmm.

Duane:
There wasn’t as much competition. Everyone didn’t really know what this whole Google thing was. Today is a lot harder to do what we do. And that’s good and bad. Obviously good because it challenges you and you’ve got to work twice as hard. And there’s a fulfillment aspect, but also bad because you’ve got to just sometimes burn them in that oil to crack something because it’s just not what it used to be sometimes.

Arlen:
Yeah, yeah, good stuff, man. Yeah, so it definitely sounds like you’ve kind of been around the way for a while and had your hands in a lot of different marketing ventures, technologies, different companies and brands. And I’m sure everything that you did in the past is really kind of what led you to, you know, to forming your, you know, your agency and to be able to help other businesses grow. So it’s always good to hear to be able to take, you know, real world hands on experience and be able to. you don’t apply that to helping other businesses. So I always love to hear that.

Duane:
Yeah, I mean, I always tell people I didn’t really mean to start an agency. You know, if I’m going to be honest, like

Arlen:
Right.

Duane:
I originally quit my job because I was both bored and unhappy and I figured I just like freelance for a year and figure things out. I’m really good at my job 10 years in and I figured I could always get a job somewhere. Somebody is always looking to hire. I can convince someone to hire me. I’ve got the skills. You know, this was in 2017 and so 2017 went into 2018 and I still kind of just happy to do my own thing in 2019 was. there. And obviously each year gets a little bit better. 2017 is rough, but 2018 is a little bit better than 2017. And 2019 is a little bit better than 2018. And then obviously, as we all experience, we had the pandemic and that was five years of growth in a matter of a couple of years.

Arlen:
right.

Duane:
And there was a decision of like, do my own thing or maybe hire a couple of people. So we’ve hired a couple of people. We’ve got a small team on purpose. Now it’s kind of just us picking who we want to work with. and balancing the clients we have with just like, making sure people have like a 40 hour week, maybe a 45 if it’s Q4 and stuff like that, we balance out the workload across everyone on the team.

Arlen:
Okay.

Duane:
But yeah, my experience definitely helped me get here. But I think as most people probably don’t always realize, working for someone else is very different than running your own company.

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
When you work somewhere, you’ve got someone who takes care of HR and hiring

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
and taxes and administration, all that sort of back end stuff you don’t gotta worry about. When you work for yourself,

Arlen:
Yep.

Duane:
You gotta wear a dozen hats and then sometimes figure that stuff out when, you know, the government still make it easy, regardless of what country you’re in. Like,

Arlen:
Mm-hmm.

Duane:
taxes are just a pain in the butt.

Arlen:
Yep, yep, definitely, definitely. I can definitely feel your pain on that, you know. There’s so many other things that come into play when the buck stops at you, you know. And you don’t realize that when you’re working for another company.

Duane:
Yeah, I tell friends, my job is not more stressful than what you do. It’s just a different kind of stress when you work for yourself versus working for somewhere else, you know? But I’d rather make my own decisions and live with the consequences than go back and work for someone else unless someone gave me some sort of dream job. 

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
and there’s very few dream jobs out there. So I think we’re going to stick to what I got going because I like it.

Arlen:
Gotcha, gotcha. Well, that’s awesome. That’s definitely good to hear. And thank you for sharing that. Well, Dwayne, I think where I kind of want to start off a conversation with is the kind of the world of pay-per-click marketing, because it’s, you know, it’s like every time I look up, there’s a different pay-per-click channel that you can participate in as a business. And a lot of times as a business owner, it’s kind of hard to navigate through these, figure out what’s what. So I wanted to see if you could share some some key strategies for paper-click marketing that will drive, that can help drive e-commerce and DTC brands’ growth.

Duane:
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with that intro there. I think it’s a lot of times for brands, it’s picking where you spend your time and your money to begin with. I think oftentimes, brands want to be everywhere. I want to be on the Google and the Microsoft and the Amazon and the Facebook and the TikTok. We were talking before we came on this podcast, threads came out by meta last week or whatever. So people want to be on threads and run ads. And so I think… If you’re starting out and let’s say you’re only spending a few thousand dollars a month or $5,000 a month, your goal really shouldn’t be to be everywhere. Your goal should be to pick one ad platform and then spend your time and energy getting that platform to work for you so it converts and brings in customers who pay you on a consistent basis, whether it’s every day you get sales or two or three times a week. But the point is you’re getting consistent sales on a regular basis that you can semi-predict how many sales you’re going to get at any given time. People often want to try to run before they can even walk, let alone crawl when it comes to advertising, which is often the wrong approach. Trying to do everything at once often has you go slower because you’re spreading your budget and your data too thin across too many ad platforms, whether it’s Google or Microsoft or Amazon or Facebook. It often leads to the question of, well, where do I go in terms of ad platforms? And so kind of the rule of thumb, I wouldn’t say it’s a hard and fast rule, but a good way to kind of think about it is, if I’ve got a product, where there’s tons of demand, i.e. there’s lots of people who search for it, well then I don’t want to spend my energy most likely on Google, right? I want to go where people are going to search for my product because it’s a high search intent product. But if I sell something that people don’t really search for, then odds are I probably want to spend my time on meta, whether it’s Facebook or Instagram, because since people are not going to search for it, I’ve got to push my ads out there to get them in front of the people who make the most sense. And so if brands are going to start out, it’s figuring out which platform you start out on. I push it, it’s not really search oriented. And so I’m on, you know, Meta, which is like Facebook and Instagram. Or if it’s search oriented, I want to be on Google and we’ll get things like performance, max shopping campaigns, search ads that when people search for my product, I can come up on google.com or dot CA or, you know, whatever country, TLT you have, uh, that way my ads come up when people search for it. So that’s how we kind of think about where do we start? Because if you start everywhere, you’re going to get nowhere.

Arlen:
Yeah, yeah, very true, very true. And I think that’s a trap that a lot of business owners fall into is because they feel that because just there’s a new platform out the latest and greatest. Like you said, Meta just announced this threads app or technology that’s, you know, going to be similar to Twitter. So, you know, you see all of these businesses, everybody is flocking to it. You know, they say they have record numbers of enrollment. And so the business owners. you know, are in their minds are like, okay, I gotta be now. I gotta be on threads before it was Snapchat or Instagram.

Duane:
Yeah.

Arlen:
And, but you’re totally right. I think you cannot be in all these places. You have to figure out, I guess, like you said, the bottom line is, you know, where is you gonna be your ideal customer? You gotta look at the demographics of these particular social platforms. Where do they skew? Some of these platforms skew over the younger audience. You know, some are more male, some are more female. And you gotta really dig into the weeds there. and figure out, all right, does this network of people meet my ideal customer profile and does it match that and then kind of go from there. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now with pay per click advertising, there’s a lot of people that are maybe new to it, probably have different misconceptions. And what would you say are some common misconceptions about paid ads? you know, in generally in the e-commerce industry and how can businesses just avoid falling into certain traps?

Duane:
Yeah, I mean, the big one is often people think if you spend a dollar today, you get back your dollar today.

Arlen:
Right.

Duane:
I think what people need to realize, and this isn’t just a paid advertising, this is just like advertising in general, whether it’s like billboards or TV or podcasts or just organic things, right? Like… When people come to your website, how long does it take them to actually make a decision they’re going to buy your product? If you’re selling maybe a cell phone case, maybe someone decides they want to buy the product right away or in 24 hours. But if you’re selling a more expensive product, let’s say you’re selling mountain bikes or some sort of high-end TV, well, I’m going to come to your website for the first time, but I’m probably not going to buy right away unless I’ve got stupid money. And so it might take a week or two weeks. And so I think people need to realize even with advertising on Google or Meta or wherever it is… you know, depending on what the customer journey is like of how long it takes someone to make a decision on making a purchase, you know, that’s how long it’s probably gonna take you to get your first sale. So if the average customer takes four days after they’ve been on your website to decide they’re gonna buy, well then you’re probably not gonna see your first sale for four or five days. And so I think that’s a big misconception people have.

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
They think like, spend the money today and I’m gonna see that sale today. The other misconception the ad platforms have done is they made it seem like it’s really easy to do this job and 

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
people often don’t think about it as a skill, but it’s kind of like being a mechanic or an engineer. Well, if you don’t go to school to be a mechanic or an engineer, unless you’ve got innate abilities, you’re probably not going to be fixing a rocket ship or fixing your own car. Right? 

Arlen:
Right.

Duane:
Like it is a skill to run campaigns and do it in a way that you’re actually going to make money. 

Arlen:
Hmm.

Duane:
Because even though it’s easy to set up, it doesn’t mean you set it up in the right way, 

Arlen:
Exactly.

Duane:
You know, it’s often, I say kind of like playing the difference between checkers and chess. People think it’s often like a game of checkers, which is really easy, but it’s more like a game of chess because you’re thinking about. situation I’m in and the choices I’ve made today, how does it impact the future-ness of this campaign for me being successful? Am I targeting the right people? Have I spent enough money on a bid? If I don’t spend enough money on a bid, well then I can’t be entered in an auction. If it can’t be entered in the ad auction, then I can’t win the click. If I can’t win the click, I can’t get the sale. So think about these things are really important versus like just clicking lots of buttons and then set up the campaign and then, oh, I’m gonna make lots of money tomorrow, which is really the case.

Arlen:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned that because what people don’t really realize is obviously with these platforms, the metas, the Google ads and all of these other pay-per-click platforms, their bottom line is to increase their bottom line. And

Duane:
Yeah.

Arlen:
so they’ve got to make it easy for you to get in there and do this setup because, you know, if there was too many barriers or it was too difficult to get in there, you know, that’s, that’s a pain point and people are going to struggle with it and they’re not going to spend as much money. So. They’ve got to make it as easy as possible. And so as a business owner, you got to realize that, yeah, okay. It’s going to be easy to get this, these things set up. I mean, you can just easily with a click of a few buttons. I mean, you can dump a, create a budget of, you know, tens of thousands of dollars. 

Duane:
Mm-hmm.

Arlen:
And, um, you know, depending on the keywords or the campaign that you’re running, I mean, you can, you can literally burn through tens of thousands of dollars in, in a matter of minutes, really. So, uh, very easy to do, but yeah, there is a skill. involved in making sure that everything is optimized correctly. And that’s where, you know, agencies such as yours and, and many others are out there to guide people because you know, you guys have had a lot of experience, not only with your, your company and your brand, but dealing with other companies and optimizing their, um, you know, campaigns for them. So it’s, um, yeah, definitely leave it to the experts, uh, is what I, what I definitely encourage people to do. Um, I want to kind of shift gears now, Dwayne, and kind of shift over to the conversion rate optimization side of things, which is I think a very big part of helping to grow your brand. A lot of businesses, I think, focus a little bit more on that top of the funnel and then trying to bring in sales through these other methods like the pay-per-click advertising. And then so sometimes the conversion rate optimization… conversion rate optimization is kind of a second thought or last thought a lot of times. And so what I wanted to see is what are some specific essential elements of conversion rate optimization that a brand should focus on in order to, you know, optimize their website to get better conversion rates.

Duane:
Yeah, I think one of the big things that people often, I think they think about, but they don’t always work on is their checkout.

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
Regardless of what traffic source someone comes from, everybody’s going to your checkout. That’s just like a guaranteed. And so making sure you’ve got a very simple checkout that’s easy to understand, is very clear. It also has things like built-in social proof, trust badges, things of that nature, means that you’re more likely to be successful. You know, the example I always give is like Shopify has a really simple checkout. It’s, you know, usually three pages. Everyone has probably seen a Shopify checkout. So let’s say you’re not on Shopify, you’re on, you know, Magento or BigCommerce or WooCommerce, you know, and it’s fun to be on those platforms. We have clients on those platforms as well. But I think if you’re on those platforms, you got to think about how do I make the best checkout experience possible? Because your biggest roadblock to success isn’t always getting more traffic. It’s sometimes just converting the traffic you already have. Because if you’re already getting the good quality traffic, then focus on converting the traffic you have would be a lot easier because you’re not paying twice to get twice as much traffic. And so if your conversion rate on your checkout is, let’s say, an average of 1%, well, getting that checkout to 1.2, 1.4, 1.25 means you’ll be converting more people and not necessarily spending more money. Yes, you’ll spend more time, obviously, because you’ve got to optimize your checkout. But I often say the checkout’s probably the one place people often think about but don’t work on. I think especially brands that are on Shopify Plus, I mean, one of the big reasons to go to Shopify Plus versus a basic Shopify plan is you can customize your checkout, but the number of brands on Shopify Plus who don’t actually customize their checkout would be shockingly high that it’s almost scary they’re on Plus to begin with. You know, I think beyond that,

Arlen:
you

Duane:
depending on what ads you’ve run, obviously things like your product page matters, you know, the images on your product page, I think often brands… under invest and underestimate the value of a really good product image for the product that they sell. Whether you’ve got two images or five images, we can debate the number of images you need to have, but actually having good quality images is really important because people do look at your images. They do look at product images from different angles and different sides. 

Arlen:
Mm-hmm.

Duane:
You see bigger brands like ASOS and stuff invest in video on their product pages as well. 

Arlen:
Hmm.

Duane:
And so for brands who can invest in a bit of video, I’d say encourage that as well because people… will often look at your product description and are able to just decide if they want to buy the product or not at the end of the day. 

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
And so I think really invest in a product page that’s easy to use, easy to see what the product is, easy to understand what I’m going to get or what the material of the product is,

Arlen:
Mm-hmm.

Duane:
means you’ll just stand a better chance of success because whether you’re running ads on Google or Meta or some other platform, everyone’s also going to most likely visit your product page on top of visiting your checkout. So those two choke points, so to speak, are where you should focus your time so you can get more people to add to cart. and then you get more people to initiate checkout and convert.

Arlen:
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. It’s kind of a balancing act. What you said earlier is that you’ve got all of this traffic already coming to your site. You’re getting a consistent, if you’ve been in business, you’re established for a year or so already, you’re already getting some consistent traffic for some of the other advertising that you’re doing. So it does make sense to really almost look at conversion rate optimization first, before you look at bringing in more traffic because, you know, if you’re not handling the customers that are coming to your site, or potential customers that are coming to your site currently right now, if you’re not handling them correctly, then it doesn’t make sense to, you know, feed more fuel to the fire because, you know, you’re just gonna be burning cash. If there’s holes, like you said, in the checkout process, if you don’t have the right product descriptions, the right pictures and things like that, then yeah, it’s just, you know. It’s going to be a ways for everybody else that’s funneling in after, you know, those current customers that have already been coming through to your site.

Duane:
I mean, I think the thing I always tell brands as well is, you know, look at what your competitors are doing, right? Your competitors often set the table stakes of like, what’s the minimum acceptable, you know, site that you need to have. And so if your site is like kind of down here and their sites are kind of up there, well, you kind of need to up your game on your website. So table stakes wise, you’re matching what your competition does

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
in terms of how nice your website is. Like gone are the days where you can have a crappy website and convert.

Arlen:
Right.

Duane:
People’s standards are pretty high after the pandemic, I would say.

Arlen:
Yeah, very true. Very true. There’s been there was a lot of retooling going on after and during the pandemic where people were like, all right, this is the only way I’m going to sell. I got to make sure I’m up to snuff. And yeah, like you said, look at your competitors and yeah, there’s you’re right. Gone are the days of having a crappy website. You got to be you got to be top notch. You got to have a good site, solid site. Um, now let’s say worry you’re a, um, a e-commerce business owner, you’re listening to this and maybe you’re new, you’re kind of just fresh out of the gate launching your site and you’re hearing everything that we’re saying about pay-per-click advertising and conversion rate optimization. How do you know and is there a particular approach in balancing the budget for paid ads as well as for conversion rate optimization? How do you know how much to put into each of those categories or areas or is there a particular… formula that works best for that.

Duane:
I don’t think there’s really a formula if you’re just starting out. Let’s say you’re a 3, 6, under a year in business.

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
Because you’re so new, all things being equal, it doesn’t make sense to try to do things CRO related

Arlen:
Mm-hmm.

Duane:
because you’re not going to have the traffic to justify it. You can’t do CRO run tests on a website if you don’t have any traffic. 

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
That’s just the way it is. But on the flip side, if your business is brand new and you didn’t set money aside to run ads on Google or Meta, wherever it is, well, then you potentially can’t run advertising because you don’t have a big enough budget. Similar to like we talked about earlier, you can blow tons of money and spend too much money in advertising, but the flip side of that is also true. You could spend too little money. You don’t spend enough money, you can’t actually decide whether what you’re doing is successful or not. So I think for brands who are just starting out, if you can do things like PR or blogger outreach or SEO and things of that nature to get your initial traction sales, it’s sometimes better to do those things because then you’ll bring in revenue which you can then invest in paid advertising. If you’re not going to do, our rule of thumb is somewhere around $100 a day or $3,000 a month is where brands should be if they want to successfully implement paid advertising for e-commerce. Sometimes you can get away with less than that if you’re in maybe, let’s say you’re in a smaller country. So let’s say you’re not targeting in America, you’re targeting maybe a country in Europe or a country in Africa and there’s less people potentially. You might be able to get away with a slightly smaller budget than that. But anything less than $100 a day starts to become a lot harder to see success because you’re not going to have as much data coming through your platform, which is then going to lead to sales.

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
And that also means if you make a mistake, you’ve got less room for error. And so that mistake is going to cost you time and money.

Arlen:
Mm-hmm.

Duane:
So if you’re starting out, you probably aren’t going to do CRO, but you’ve got to make sure you’ve got revenue or money set aside to actually do anything with paid advertising. 

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
So you don’t spend enough. You’re just going to burn your wheels or spin your wheels.

Arlen:
I understand that makes that makes total sense. So you got to have traffic. You got to have a kind of a history of performance, getting that traffic going to the site. And then and then you can start to analyze eventually, like you said, the conversion rates. But yeah, it makes that makes sense. It’s just something that a startup brand doesn’t need to think about initially. Yeah, they can start planning for thinking about it down in the down the line in the future. But initially, they’ve just got to spread the word, they got to start growing sales, getting traffic coming to their site. And then, from the experiences that people are having and the kind of the flow or the customer journey actually, they can analyze those types of things and figure out, okay, how can we improve it? And then, yeah, I totally understand how that would be appropriate at that point.

Duane:
Yeah.

Arlen:
Well, as we get ready to wrap things up, Dwayne, I wanted to see if you could share a success story of a brand that you either work with or that you’re just familiar with in general that has effectively utilized paid ads and conversion rate optimization to build a profitable e-commerce business.

Duane:
Yeah, I mean, we’ve got lots of different examples, but I mean, I’ll talk about one of our older clients. I don’t know how many, how many of us are women, but we work with a brand called this is Jay, they make pajamas, they sell across North America. You know, we do make pajamas for guys and stuff like that, but most of our pajamas we sell are mostly for women. But a big thing that’s helped us grow successfully over the years is we understand why women want to buy the pajamas versus other options in the market and really incorporating that message into advertising. It’s no different than when you sell a SaaS platform or some piece of technology. You try to incorporate people’s pain points into that technology to convince them to buy that technology. For those listeners who are probably our age or maybe who’ve been around for at least a good decade or more,

Arlen:
Mm-hmm.

Duane:
when Apple first came out with the iPod, it was all about having five gigs of music in your little iPod.

Arlen:
Yep.

Duane:
So I think that sort of advertising where you hit on someone’s pain point or problem and how your product solves it works out really well for lots of clients we work with. Because oftentimes people are going to try to sell a feature or a set in or tell us what the product does, which is great. But if you can sell something that helps people, that’s even better.

Arlen:
Hmm.

Duane:
In doing that, it’s really how to just take clients from, they’re usually in the mid six figure range. So let’s say they’re making anywhere from three to $600,000 a year, and then take clients to one, two, three, four, five million dollars a year. But even brands who come to us who are already at seven figures, helping them scale up to $10 or $20 million a year,

Arlen:
Mm-hmm.

Duane:
it’s still the same process. It’s like, why people buying this? Figure out what the pain point or problem that you’re solving and really hit on that so you can help scale them by targeting people who care about what that problem or pain point is at the end of the day.

Arlen:
Yeah, yeah, that I mean, that’s just kind of the bottom line. The fundamentals of any type of selling is just capturing that pain point, figuring out what that pain point is. And then, you know, highlighting in your product or service how you meet those needs and how you can resolve and solve that pain point. So that’s thanks for sharing that example. with the company that you dealt with because that’s, yeah, that’s really what it comes down to. I mean, those are the fundamentals and, you know, as long as businesses are going to be in existence, I don’t know if that’s ever going to really change. People want a problem solved, a pain point solved, and they’re coming to your brand or they’re in the marketplace researching brands to figure out how that can be solved. So yeah, that’s really what it comes down to. Well, Dwayne, this has been an awesome conversation. I definitely learned a lot regarding paid ads and conversion rate optimization. I think it’s going to go a long way with our listeners and our viewers as well. And so yeah, this was awesome. But to close things out, I always like to switch gears just so our audience and listeners and viewers can get to know you a little bit better. So if you don’t mind sharing one closing fun fact about yourself that you think we’d be interested to know.

Duane:
Yeah, actually, I was going to say, since I was telling you before, I just came back from vacation.

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
I’ve actually hit 48 countries now, 

Arlen:
Wow.

Duane:
So, I’ve increased my number of countries. I think most people say that two things that I love is basically travel and food.

Arlen:
Okay.

Duane:
I would have loved to work on a peanut butter brand because I love peanut butter

Arlen:
Mm-hmm.

Duane:
as a food group.

Arlen:
Okay.

Duane:
But yeah, when I’m not working, I’m basically either traveling or trying a restaurant and trying to shut my brain off of running a company. Because I think as you know, and any business owner knows, it’s hard to sometimes shut off your brain.

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
But I know when I’m out at a restaurant or traveling, I can usually shut off my brain a little bit easier because I’m doing something that I really love.

Arlen:
Yeah.

Duane:
That makes me better at my job when I come back to work.

Arlen:
Yeah, that’s very true. Well, that’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. So wow, 48 countries and you’ve got me beat by quite a bit.

Duane:
Hahaha

Arlen:
I guess I got to get my travel game up as I can catch up with you. But yeah, that’s definitely after another point offline, we’ll have to pick your brain a little bit more about some of the places that you’ve been and get some travel recommendations from you as well.

Duane:|
Anytime I’ve got restaurant reviewed on Google. I only review like restaurants and hotels on Google reviews from my

Arlen:
Okay.

Duane:
Google reviews So yeah friends generally come to me when it comes to things like travel food or where do I stay?

Arlen:
Okay.

Duane:
Because I I’ve reviewed that stuff and I find it super interested

Arlen:
Okay, great, great. Yeah. Well, before my next trip, I’ll definitely hit ping you and hit you up and see, have you been there and then what recommendations could you recommend? Well, so yeah, definitely. Thank you for sharing that. Dwayne really appreciate that. Um, lastly, before we do let you go, um, if you don’t mind sharing the best way for our listeners and viewers to contact you, if they want to pick your brain anymore about pay-per-click advertising or conversion rate optimization.

Duane:
Yeah, I mean, probably go to our website. It’s probably the easiest way. So you just go to takesomerisk.com and there’s like an email address, there’s a form you can fill out if you wanna reach out and see if you want us to do like an audit or you want some consulting because maybe you wanna keep execution in house or if you do wanna like hire an agency potentially. And then I spent a fair bit of time on LinkedIn and on Reddit. So those are other areas that I spent a bit of time on. So that’s kind of the best places to reach out to me really.

Arlen:
Okay, awesome. Well, awesome. I definitely encourage people to check you out. We’ll have the link to your website and our show notes so people can access it from there. But yeah, once again, it’s been a pleasure talking to you, Dwayne. We really appreciate you having this conversation and coming on to the e-commerce marketing podcast.

Duane:
Thanks for having me, appreciate it.

Podcast Guest Info

Duane Brown
Founder of Take Some Risk